Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 3
Editor’s Note: This is third in a continuing series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a message board active between 2001 and 2003. This installment begins with the first posting by “Ms. Lynda,” who, by the frequency of her posts and forcefulness of her online personality, would quickly assume a position of primacy on the board. “Ms. Lynda” kept the focus on matriarchal marriage and generally functioned as de facto moderator.
MS. LYNDA
In private, my boyfriend tells me "I am the most pussywhipped man in the universe, and I love it." In public, he is afraid to show his subservience to me. I want a husband who will be subordinate and submissive.
ANON
I think a family run by a woman will be more democratic. Sometimes the larger wage earner must be heard more. It is you who determines vacations, family outings, etc. In some respects that should not upset a relationship where people are equals. However, most men are scared to death. Women must take over. Stand your ground. You will probably see that your husband will capitulate. Treat him fairly, but let him know who the new boss is.
MS. LYNDA
I told my boyfriend that I was taking the job offer because it made the most economic sense. I told him he should follow me, spend some time as my househusband to help me get settled and establish his role in our relationship, and to give him the freedom of finding the right job if he really wants to work in the outside world during our marriage. He caved in within minutes. He needs my direction in his life. He then served me some tea and fruit, ending the evening's discussion with some Empress Wu treatment that was out of this world.
Thanks for the support and suggestions. I think we women have to be more determined and make our own decisions. The men will follow; they have to follow.
Do you have any words of advice for my future husband? He needs to know that he is not alone. This is not a fantasy. As he gets more comfortable being submissive and subordinate to me, I hope he never loses what has made him special. I do not want a doormat. I want a man who gladly takes women's rule seriously.
We want to have children. I will want them to know in very real ways that Mommy Knows Best. I want my children (male and female) to know that I head the household. I also want all of us to continue to grow. If my husband does nothing but obey me, he will be very boring very soon…
I have decided to throw a dinner party for the one female professor (Feminist Studies) who has given me the most encouragement. My boyfriend will prepare and serve the meal. I do not intend on humiliating him in front of my teacher. However, I do want him to get experience in serving since he will be doing a lot of this to foster and nurture my career. Of course, I will praise him for his abilities if he provides excellent service. I can prove that I am in charge without making him be less of a man. I think my professor might truly enjoy being served by a nice, young college guy.
MS. LYNDA
I would also like to hear from other men and women who are going through similar situations. I do not want to be abusive to my future husband. I just want to be the head of our family, with him taking his directions from me. I have noticed some entries here regarding the man taking the woman's last name. Are there men who have really done this? What problems have you had? Are most of you only submissive in the bedroom, or do you carry it into other areas of your life?
GUY
All I can say, is good for you, Lynda! I've been in a couple of female-led relationships and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found that within a relationship where the girl was boss I actually grew and improved myself in many ways I never would have had roles been reversed. I think it’s only natural for women to lead and we as a species are beginning to put this together. It’s an exciting time to be alive and its very encouraging to know there are Ladies like yourself who are becoming acquainted with their own innate power.
MS. LYNDA
Thanks for your observations. I have always been an "in charge woman." You are correct. My current boyfriend is submissive, but not that masochistic. He does like the humiliation of serving me in front of selected friends. And then he balks at doing his duties at times. I just have to learn how to enforce my will.
AMAZON
I hate always having to give directions to the boys who work for me. I love the power, but sometimes I want to come home to a clean house without having to inspect every job they attempted, and to a meal that I did not have to order them to do. There are so many jobs a boy can learn.
LADY ANON
It is always easy to find men to take the subordinate role in my household. While I am not a "dominatrice," I am bossy. No man talks back to me. I can be generous as I reward the man who serves me. My career is going so well because I have nothing to worry about on the homefront. However, I have friends who want the man outside the home in the work force even when they are the head of the household. Finally, I do know a couple that celebrate their relationship with female sadism and male masochism. I believe in total matriarchy. Bob, how far do you want to go with being a male homemaker?
NEWELL
Hey Lynda, How's everything going with the Matriarchal Clan? I assume the dinner went well?
MS. LYNDA
Newell, The dinner party was a great success. Let us just say that several other women on campus now know who the boss is. He performed very well indeed. He wants to submit, but his pride will not always let him do what he must. I have to show even more strength. I like a challenge. I want a man I can walk all over only after I have bested him. I do not like "Casper Milktoast" guys. A little spirit goes a long way into making a relationship meaningful.
MS. LYNDA
My boyfriend and I graduated this past Saturday. I graduated Magna cum Lauda; he just graduated. He threw the nicest party for us with the help of some of his male friends. It is really nice to attend a party where all the serving is done by men. We have summer jobs here to do some more research. I will then move for my new job and my boyfriend will follow me to be my househusband. It is beginning to work out like I want it to work out, and, I think he is secretly happy about his new role. Sometimes he puts up a fuss in front of his friends, but at home in the quiet of our solitude, he tells me how happy he is. This is a great time to be a career minded woman with a man willing to be in a subordinate position. As a couple of people have said, this may give rise to a new matriarchy. I hope so.
CHARLES
Lynda, your story fascinates me. You are so much like my wife that it's scary. I have been a househusband since we got married 5 years ago. From the moment we met, she was in total charge of everything. I was working as a personal assistant to a real estate agent (female) who introduced me to Lisa (my wife). Lisa owns an extremely successful real estate agency. Lisa and I dated for about 9 months and then got married. Lisa, and her career, quickly became the most important thing in my life. I adapted quickly to the role of househusband, probably because I had been accustomed to working for a female boss. From your postings, Lynda, I have noticed that your partner was somewhat reluctant at first, but soon "caved" as you put it. I just want you to know that it will get easier for him. That first time you made him serve at the dinner party for your feminist studies professor was probably a very difficult thing for him. I know because the first time I served my wife and her friends at a dinner party, it was difficult for me. However each time it got easier, and I got better at it. Now, it is so easy that all my wife has to do is tell me when and how many guests.
Please assure your partner that it will get easier. Being a househusband is a demanding role, but each success my wife has makes it all worth it. As I complete my daily tasks, I constantly keep in mind the effect these tasks, no matter how small, have on the quality of her life. The fact that her skirts and blouses are ironed to perfection hopefully plays a small part in her success. I truly, truly admire you Lynda.
MR. LYNDA
Charles: thank you for the posting. I am getting more comfortable with my status in the relationship. I freely use the terms "subordinate" and "submissive". What is your comfort level? Is Lisa the head of your household? Are you "subordinate" and/or "submissive" to her? Lynda wants me to take her last name in marriage. At the present time, we will use both names with a hyphen. We will drop the hyphen when we have children and my last name will become a second middle name. How do any of you feel about this? When you serve a dinner party for your wife, how do you serve? At the one I did, I was more like a butler. I served everything before sitting down and eating with the guests.
CHARLES
I avoid terms and labels, especially the term submissive, since it is so clearly associated with the S & M community, of which I am not a part. I am, however, subordinate to Lisa, she is in charge, her decisions are final. Regarding names, I would say if you intend to take your wife’s last name, as I did, just do it right from the beginning, it's much easier. Sometimes, at her dinner parties, I am treated much like a waiter or butler, but I'm used to it. I wait on Lisa hand and foot all the time, as she is a busy woman. Why should a woman like Lisa (or Lynda) have to ever lift a finger around the house except to direct us?
MR. LYNDA
Charles, I am comfortable taking Lynda's last name. We thought using the hyphen might appease my family. At parties or gatherings, are you ever known as Mr. Lisa? I am comfortable with Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ as our formal address as I think it opens new ground for a career woman. Am I just being silly? Like you, I want the final decision to be Lynda's own, but I am glad I have a say. Your comment about labels is well taken. I am not part of the S and M community; "subordinate" and submissive" are the way I am naturally, and I want to reclaim them from a community that uses them to further the myth of weakness in the partner who is submissive. Again, am I silly?
CHARLES
Nah, not silly, As far as names, my name since marriage is Charles (Lisa’s last name). I took it from the beginning. However, I've never used or been called Mr. Lisa (LLN), by anybody. Women have always taken their husband’s last name, so I don’t see what the big deal is. As far as age, I'm 39, Lisa is 37. As far as kids, who knows? As far as how I'd raise them, who knows? Right now I'm just thinking about pleasing Lisa, furthering her career, making her life comfortable and convenient, and trying to avoid displeasing her.
MR. LYNDA
How did you announce your name change in the newspapers? If you would be comfortable, would you tell me what newspaper reported your wedding? I think it would be cool to say: "The groom will be taking the bride's last name as his own. The family will be known as Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ."
CHARLES
We did not announce it to the world, the people who knew us, obviously knew that I was going to take her name, and everyone was cool about it. The bottom line is that it was Lisa's decision and in your case it should be Lynda's decision. Find out what she wants you to do.
MR. LYNDA
The only time I feel uncomfortable with my role is when I take too much heat from friends. And I am finding that I am choosing more female friends who support the decisions we are making. Lynda is the one who would like to have the newspaper announcement about our wedding complete with the name change. I like what it says about our relationship, but we must also think about her career.
This may be too personal, but would you say something about your sex life? How do you keep it interesting for a woman like Lisa who is out in the world all the time? How do you dress? It is interesting when we go out sometimes because Lynda is dressed like an executive and I am in neat sports wear. I am extremely tall and muscular; one of her friends has said I will be her trophy husband. Have you ever been called this? Lynda is petite and muscular; I call her my Amazon Queen sometimes.
What were your wedding vows like? Do you think it is wrong for me to use the ancient form and promise "to love, honor, and obey"? We are planning a bachelorette party where we are going to recreate a scene from RITUAL OF PROOF. Sometimes, in a very polite and servile way, I have to make Lynda take it easy. It is nice to know that there are other men like me around. I have found much inspiration and support in SPOUSECLUB. This way of life may become more and more accepted. I think there are a lot of men ready.
CHARLES
Regarding your marriage vows, if Lynda wants "obey" in there, put it in. Regarding our sex life, I keep Lisa happy because I put her pleasure before mine. It’s that simple. She always decides when, where, and how and has no problem finding creative ways for me to please her. Lisa is absolutely breathtaking, so I don't think anyone will be referring to me as a "trophy husband" when they see the two of us together. However, to her, and to all of her female friends, I am a "trophy" if not at least a "prize." I know many men would kill to be in my shoes, but there are many, many powerful, assertive, successful women out there, and if a man wants to meet one of these women, he can. From there, it's up to him to show her the joys of life with a subordinate mate. So tell me, Mr. Lynda, what are Lynda's expectations of you? What is your typical day like?
MR. LYNDA
We must work to encourage women to take the lead. Men will follow. I am convinced that many want to take a more subordinate role. We need to hear from these women. Can a woman who is a CEO come out of her closet and tell the world that she is the boss at work and home without some kind of retribution against her?
CHARLES
I agree that the women who are in charge at work and at home need to set the example for other women. This website should be required reading for female executives.
MS. LYNDA
It should also be required reading for all boys from junior high school through college who may have to assume new roles to support the women in their lives. Home Ec classes that became Bachelor Training classes may again be Home Ec classes for boys. Do not laugh. I am very serious. We must do everything in our power to encourage young women to become everything they can be and to encourage the men to be everything they can be, with the great option of being a househusband and subordinate partner in marriage.
In looking at the local newspapers, every high school in our area had female top students. Some, not all, had males. This is happening while we are still hearing reports that women must be encouraged to study sciences, etc. There was a time when all of the 7 Sister Colleges and all of the Ivy League schools had male presidents. I think every one of the 7 Sister Colleges has a female president and two of the Ivy League colleges have women presidents. It will be a great day for rejoicing when Harvard and Yale have women at the head. Long Live Girl Power!!! Long Live Woman Power!!! Thanks to the men who will support us!
CHARLES
You're welcome, Lynda! Most of the top students in the schools I'm familiar with are women. These women will all have successful careers. But just think how much easier it would be for them, and how much more successful they would be, if they had supporting husbands staying at home. Unfortunately, most of them, if they marry, will marry husbands with careers. These women will not be able to concentrate as effectively on their own careers. When they arrive home from work, they will still have to worry about household duties. Instead, they should be coming home to a nice dinner, a hot bath, and a clean house, all prepared by their supportive husbands. Who is teaching our young men that it is acceptable to take a supportive role, that it's OK to be a househusband? Nobody is. It would be cool if somewhere in their education, young men were exposed to life as a househusband, perhaps in a Home Ec course like you suggest, Lynda. Make it mandatory.
In a store once, I saw a young college age woman and her boyfriend shopping for shoes. This young woman was having a conversation on her cell phone and she was discussing, not that I was eavesdropping, some kind of a complicated engineering research project, sounded like something to do with biomedical engineering. As she was heavily involved in her conversation, she'd point to various shoes she wanted to try on and her boyfriend would get them for her in her size, and try them on her feet. I wish Lisa was there to see this. How can we encourage this to become the norm rather than the exception?
MS. LYNDA
Why can't men handle powerful and assertive women? Why can't women be encouraged to be assertive and dominant? Charles, you were a male secretary. Did your boss ever scare you with her sexual assertiveness? Did you simply accept her power, which might include some sexual innuendo at times of your working beneath a woman, for a woman, etc.?
MR. LYNDA
How does my typical day compare with your typical day? I am up quite earlier than Lynda. I prepare the coffee and do whatever baking is needed for the morning. (I have a batter prepared for muffins. If a muffin is what Lynda wants, I will finish the preparation and bake several muffins for us.) If not, I shower and shave. I finish preparing breakfast. Most of the time, it is toast, fruit plate, yogurt. Sometimes I prepare an eggbake of some kind or fix eggs, etc. I bring her coffee in bed. Sometimes I make her morning coffee more erotic by serving her on my knees and kissing her feet and legs while she has her coffee. I make sure that her clothes are pressed. (This is difficult for me. I am going to have to take classes in ironing.) She comes to the breakfast table and we have breakfast together. After she leaves, I do the dishes and prepare to leave for my work. (At the present time, work is a class for lifeguards. I will be working at the pool this summer.) I arrive home at about 4:15 p.m. and begin to prepare for supper.
(Sometimes I prepare a supper as chosen by Lynda. Sometimes I have to prepare it using my own thought. I have noticed that some men think everything must be decided by the woman. For us at least, this is unreal. Lynda does not always have the time to make these decisions. Also, while I have read that men who do the housework like to be inspected by their mate, it is an unreal expectation. The house needs to be clean. Most of the time, Lynda does not have time to inspect my work.)
I begin to prepare supper. I take a quick shower and change into clothes for the evening. I get the table ready and finish supper. Lynda arrives home at about 5:45 p.m. I meet her at the door with the newspaper and a cold drink. She lounges while I do the last minute preparations. She may go upstairs and take a quick shower or bath to relax. I serve supper and sit down with her. After we have eaten, she goes into the living room, den, or library while I clean up. (She has helped me in the kitchen several times so that we can talk. It is her decision to assist me or to relax. I am most comfortable when she chooses to relax. In our relationship, i am doing the man's work. She is not expected to lift a finger.) I bring in a plate of cookies, some coffee, tea, or Perrier and we spend some time in conversation. (Sometimes, she was work to continue. I find something else to do. However, I am always on call.)
We have decided to wait until we are married until we have intercourse. However, she may want me to go down on her while she relaxes. Before bed, we may go for a walk or I may spend some further time pleasing her. She goes to bed first, and I straighten up the living area. I go up to the bedroom. We may have a little more fun. Sometimes, she has me do a strip tease for her. We are ready for another day. While the house is always neat, I only take one or two days a week to do a complete cleaning. I often run errands for Lynda. We tend to do the shopping together. However, she has told me that I may have to do it by myself when we are married. She may not have time.) About twice a week, I meet her for supper at a restaurant. Because I had read it somewhere, I once made reservations a restaurant out of town in the name of Ms. and Mr. Lynda (Her Last Name).
You are right in saying that the assertive woman is out there. I am doing the lawn work for the feminist sudies professor who came to one of our first dinner parties. She is dating a male professor from another college who is completely smitten with her power. He has already taken the subordinate status in the relationship, including taking her last name in marriage if they marry. As men, we have got to let Women know that they can have the power in the relationship. Lynda dresses very well and she turns me on. However, she has never worn leather and carried a whip. I asked Lynda to share her expectations. She said she will post them herself. Yes, she wants me "to love, honor and obey."
Please tell me about your typical day. I noticed from a posting from you today that you might consider becoming Mr. Lisa (Her Last Name.) Are you having a change of heart?
CHARLES
I don’t know if I'm having a change of heart. My typical day is much like yours. I get up first, make coffee, sit down and have a cup while reading the paper. Lisa gets up, I get her coffee, then I get her breakfast which is usually just cereal or fruit. As she eats her breakfast, I make sure she has towels for her shower, and that she has all of her hair and body care products ready. As she showers, I get her clothes ready, making sure they are pressed (you will get the hang of ironing, it’s not hard). I lay her clothes on the bed. As she is a fanatic about shoes, I also usually shine the pair she has selected for the day, if they need it. As she dresses, I clean up the kitchen, she gives me a list of errands she needs done ( she usually writes them out for me so I don’t forget) and she leaves for work.
My day then consists of typical househusband duties, cleaning, laundry, ironing, grocery shopping, cooking, and running Lisa's errands. Typical errands include shopping for any items she may need, getting her car washed, picking up her dry cleaning, and other errands. As far as meals, since I know what Lisa likes, I plan all of the meals. You’re right, she doesn’t have time for this. She doesn’t inspect my housework either, however if something is not the way she wants it, she's not afraid to let me know.
When Lisa gets home, I serve her dinner, we eat and talk. Lisa and I constantly communicate with each other, and if there is a problem she will listen to my side. She has the final decision, but she does not ignore my input. After dinner I clean up while Lisa relaxes with a cup of tea or a glass of wine. She is usually on the phone for a while taking care of business. Since she has so little time, I take care of a lot of her personal needs such as manicures, pedicures, and facials, and as I said I’ve attended schools to learn these things. Manicures are usually once a week, same for pedicures, although I also usually do a polish change for her in between. I give her various massages to relax her, I've also learned facials and other skin care. All of these things give us a lot of time to talk and communicate. As Lynda advances in her career, you will find that you will be doing more and more for her, simply because she just will not have the time. But then again, that's what househusbands are for.
End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 3
(To be continued…)