Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 7
(Editor’s Note: This seventh in a continuing series of samplings from the “Spousechat” message board includes postings that describe Ms. And Mr. Lynda’s honeymoon and their life as newlyweds.)
MS. LYNDA
We got back late last night from the first leg of our honeymoon. We leave Wednesday to go on our cruise. I am so in love with Mr. Lynda. The first part of the honeymoon could not have been any better. We were both thinking a lot about you [Mr. Lisa] on Wednesday evening. How did your program go with Ms. Catherine? I want details. I do not know if it will happen, but, a friend attended our wedding last week and was shocked that the local newspaper did not want to report our ceremony since my husband took my last name. She is going to write an article and see if it can be published in an area newspaper from a bigger city. She has a degree in journalism. I will let you know if the article gets in her paper so you can read it. She thinks it is wonderful that my husband took my last name and that our formal family address will be Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ.
MR. LISA
First of all, congratulations on your marriage. I really think you are at the forefront of defining the new female/male relationship. I would love to read about your wedding. My presentation went great. Lisa wrote me a short talk which I gave which basically detailed the premise of our relationship. As expected the questions from the women were many. I did my best to answer them. Of course, being a feminist group, all of the women were very pleased and very supportive. They really enjoyed the fact that I was openly called Mr. Lisa S. and many of them commented on the statement that made. I treated Catherine in a very subservient manner all evening, of course her friends noticed this and thought it was fantastic. Towards the end of August, the group is having an end of summer pool party. Catherine asked me if I would mind being the waiter/attendant for this party. Of course I said yes, as long as Lisa agreed. Lisa agreed to it and she will attend as well. In addition, I have to put the entire party together as well as being the waiter/attendant for it. I actually can't wait.
MS. LYNDA
I am so happy to hear that your program went well because it sets another new standard for women and men to strive [to reach]. For the August party, you should enlist the help of several men to be the waitstaff for the women. You could be their servants for the day and experience what all men should experience. Can you imagine how enlightened their husbands and sons would be if they had to serve the women?
MS. LYNDA
We have returned from both parts of our honeymoon. I would like to respond to a couple of your concerns. Yes, we did go through with the ceremony as reported, but, it was just for fun. Both Preston and I have taken the viewpoint that if you cannot convince them, join them. We still have lots of friends who consider me the Bitch Supreme and Preston as the most whipped man in America. Some fail to see that we truly love each other deeply and on many more levels than some married couples experience. While I claim my right to be head of the household, Preston had a say. (I am not sure I could have married a man who would not surrender the leadership to me, but it would have been difficult not to negotiate with Preston.)
Since arriving home, he has had a lovely meal prepared for every evening. We spend time talking, sharing, and loving. He is a human being who deserves my respect and love; he has given me so much. I am also giving him some stability he has not had before in his life. The cost to him for me is his surrender, support, subordinate status in the home, and his submissive nature. We chose our roles together and with clear knowledge of what we are doing. I hope this clears up a little of the fun we had in creating something funny for our wedding. Some of you should consider doing the same. When I hear friends tell about the tensions they had close to the wedding day, I am so happy that we had so little stress. Is that because a woman was in charge? I do not know. It may just be.
MS. LYNDA
Arrived back from the cruise and it was wonderful. My new boss and her staff had chartered the boat for the cruise. We had some work assignments, but the men were able to serve us while we were on the cruise. All the women of this company have husbands who make less money and who must attend to most of the domestic chores. All the women were jealous of me since my husband took my last name and that we are introduced as Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. (Some people even forgot his first name and referred to him as Mr. Lynda all the time.) The serious work is now ahead of us as we begin our normal day to day life together. We did have our first letter written to us as Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. We also got our first bill addressed to Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. I cannot tell you how thrilling it is to have my leadership acknowledged. Keep me informed.
MR. SARAH
The word "man" has traditionally been associated with a number of traits that define a human male. I, however, find these traits to be confining, stereotypical, oppressive, and insulting to any man who understands the benefits of submitting to a woman's control.
In my relationship, my wife (I don't like to use the term "my wife" because it implies ownership) makes the decisions. She has complete control over the financial aspect of our marriage, and even the domestic aspect. Although I take care of the housework, new changes to the house are not made without her permission. I also dress as she says and have even had my facial hair removed permanently at her direction. I am offended when people say she is "the man of the house" because of the use of the word "man." Or when people tell me to, "be a man."
That is why I propose inventing a new word to represent our true state. A word that is positive but yet escapes the old fashioned beliefs of how a man is supposed to behave. Any suggestions?
ANOTHER MR. HER
I am the husband of a very important woman, and I have become Mr. Her with few problems. We do need a new vocabulary. While not perfect, I do have a starting point. Ms. and Herb. Herb stands for Her Boy. It acknowledges her ownership instead of the male's ownership. He belongs to her and is required to obey her. It might be shortened to Hrb. It does speak volumes when we put Ms. first. Are you actually known as Mr. Sarah? It has been great finding other men who have adopted both the wife's first name and last name for the family. I also agree with not using "my wife" as often as we do. Have any of you used "Woman and husband"? We did at our wedding ceremony, and I noticed that Ms. Lynda and her husband did the same. That little thing speaks volumes also. Here is to the Women who rule the nest. May a vocabulary develop that will be matriarchal and matrilineal.
MR. LISA
Congratulations, Ms. Lynda, from the sound of things, your marriage is certainly on the right track. I have been busy tending to my household duties and planning the party for Catherine's organization. I'm basically done with all the plans. I found a woman owned catering company to cater the affair and, at Catherine's request, all waiters/servers will be males. They will be the only males at the party other than me, of course. I have not yet been told what my duties will be on the actual day of the party. Lisa will be attending the party as her mother's guest. The women of the group will get a first hand look at a true female centered relationship (other than possibly their own). Lisa and Catherine have been playfully "arguing" about who "gets" me for the party, so I've got a feeling I'm going to be someone's personal waiter or something like that, either Lisa's or Catherine's, depending on who wins the "argument." I hope it's Lisa, Catherine enjoys embarrassing me just a little bit too much. But either way, I'll accept it and do a good job.
MS. LYNDA
Perhaps your service to Catherine's group could become a monthly thing. You could be dismissed when serious business was to be discussed. (We do not want our handsome men worrying over trivial details better handled by the women in their lives.) Seriously, it is a good idea. Husbands could be the hosts and serve. This might be payback for all the poker party duties some women have had. Secondly, I think men could learn a lot from the experience. If nothing else, being dismissed because serious matters are up for discussion might be a revelation for most men. I was at a business meeting / supper at my boss' house. It was funny when she said the men could go into the den and enjoy drinks, television, etc., while the women went to work. I do not want to appear like a dislike men because I love them, but it is justice, even if in small amounts. Comments from anyone?
MS. LYNDA
Did you get the idea that many of the women in Catherine's group were the head of their households? Did any of them have their husbands take their name in marriage, stay home while they worked, etc.? Was the catering service able to supply the male waiters because the men were employees, or did she have to contract for them? Did she have a difficult time getting the men to serve as waiters? Do you think some of the husbands of the feminist group would have been willing to serve as waiters? At another get together, Lisa, Catherine and you should lead by example. After what I have gone through the last week with some meetings where men are workshop leaders and speak only in masculine terms, it would be a real learning experience for men to have to live in a woman's world for just a few hours. It might truly change some minds if men had to identify themselves only by their wife's name ("This is Mr. Susan Brown") and by her station in life ("He is so lucky; his wife is a world famous doctor. Oh, he has some kind of outside job.”) Mr. Lisa and any of you men out there: Does any of this have meaning for you?
MR. LISA
Ms. Lynda, I did get the impression from some of the married women in the group that they were head of their households. However, although many of them kept their own names, none of them had husbands who took their names. The caterer who I worked with basically had a list of individuals who worked for her, there were a number of males on the list. She did question why I wanted only male waiters, and I simply told her that those were my instructions from the woman who is hosting the party. I totally agree with you about the use of male terms in everyday life. It is unfortunate that even today this still exists. It would be quite humbling for these men to known by their wives' accomplishments. I'm sure that you and Mr. Lynda could serve as real examples for these men and their wives. For example, if someone asks what your husband does, you could say "Oh, he just stays at home, he's just a househusband." Have Mr. Lynda join you for lunch sometime with these men, let them see a female centered relationship first hand, get together with their wives, bring Mr. Lynda, let their wives see first hand. Eventually these men will be working for you anyway, Ms. Lynda.
MS. LYNDA
You are so right. Most of these men will be reporting to me within the year. Thankfully, my immediate superiors are all women. I am gaining quite a reputation. I let one of the presenters have it when he asked how I felt about his presentation. I asked him how he would like being ignored in language. He came to my office the next day and expressed his apologies. I know that you are Charles most of the time. You are Mr. Lisa when being addressed formally. My husband will also keep his masculine name forever. However, I do intend to always address him as Mr. Lynda in public. Someone must begin to set some new standards.
How are you going to have the waiters dress? You should get a crest of the women's club and have each boy wear it on his shirt. He would then begin to feel what it is like to be owned. If I were doing the party, I would have handsome boys in skimpy bathing suits and Chippendale collars and cuffs. I would also refer to the waiters as "boy" and "my boy". For far too long, we have been the girls. There is an element of humiliation in this for the boys, but I would also do it to make a point. Justice is justice. Ponder what we women have gone through for so long. Mr. Lynda brought me breakfast in bed again today. He was completely naked. What a sight! He also knelt to serve me. Who could ask for anything more?
MR. LISA
Catherine wants all the waiters in white shorts, shirts and shoes, kind of like a resort atmosphere. I'm supposed to wear the same "uniform". My job at the party will to remain at Catherine's side as her personal waiter for the afternoon/evening. Lisa thinks this will be a good experience for me, it will allow many of the women in Catherine's group to observe as Catherine socializes with them. I have found that Catherine has no problem with my embarrassment or humiliation. Lisa says it should not be humiliating to me to have to serve in this manner, and I guess it isn't really. We will see what happens. As far as being called "boy", I remember my former boss used to refer to me as her "boy" and it did make a point with me. It sure sounds like Mr. Lynda is doing a good job pleasing you.
MS. LYNDA
I am interested in knowing what you consider "humiliating". Everyone must get in touch with their feelings. Women have been just as unwilling to share those feelings. I am humiliated every time some man calls me "girl" or something. If men experience the same feelings, perhaps we will grow from the experience. I know a man who resents having to call his bosses "Ma'am". What has Catherine and / or Lisa done to "put you in your place"? Did you deserve the treatment because you were getting too big an ego?
MR. LISA
Well, for example, Lisa was trying on some skirts at a department store. The saleswoman was assisting her and I was sitting in the "husbands" chair with Lisa's packages, purse, etc. The saleswoman was looking at the skirt Lisa had on and said that perhaps she should try a size 4. Lisa, without even looking in my direction, points in my direction and snaps her fingers. I immediately go to her and she simply says "go find this in a size 4". The saleswoman smiled and I heard her say, "boy, he sure is handy." I felt embarrassed and objectified at the time. But in thinking about it, women have been subject to this type of treatment before, and like you say, Ms. Lynda, justice is justice. This is just one example, there are countless others. Lisa's mother does insist on being called "ma'am" by me, and I know I will have to do this for the party in front of all of her group members and some of her friends as well. But, deep down, I know she deserves this respect, although it's a little embarrassing.
MS. LYNDA
Thank you for answering my question. Mr. Lynda has not found his comfort level yet. He is very eager to please and says he has not found a situation that was humiliating and degrading to him as a male. Please remember, he was (is) a theatre major and enjoys the dramatic. That is why so many of our pre-wedding parties worked so well. I was kind of surprised at the things that make you feel humiliated. I would think that any man in a subordinate position would enjoy calling his wife's mother, "Ma'am", and would not be concerned with what people thought when he accompanied his wife on a shopping trip. In some respects, you were only doing the gentlemanly thing by going and fetching for your wife. How many times have we seen this in reverse? I would have thought humiliation would be if Catherine forced you to keep your eyes cast to the floor when you are not serving, perhaps kneeling before her and Lisa, etc. As I said, everyone is entitled to their expressions of what humiliates them. As more women take an active role in family leadership, we will see what begins to be the traditions to show women in charge.
On our honeymoon, we had some "antique" pictures taken. In olden times, you could tell that the man was in charge because he was always seated. His wife stood behind or beside him. My husband and I reversed it. I sat and he stood. It is a subtle thing, but it is not missed on us and some of our friends. Secondly, we took a busy and full bus into a resort town off the ship. I made him sit. As head of the family, I must protect him and his honor. This reversal was noticed by several people. Finally, all reservations are made in my name and I produce the credit card. This is not so unusual because women carry purses. However, several hosts remarked on the reservation being made in my name. My husband was only too happy to inform them that I was head of the family, the "breadwinner", and that he had taken my name in marriage. I do not know what they thought or said behind our backs, but they all treated us with respect and said our decision was, "Cool."
You did make the statement in one of your messages that not all of the women in Catherine's group are married. Because of your demonstration, do you think some may demand that their boyfriends take their name in marriage? After all, this is a feminist group. We need to spread the word. Do you feel you helped some women make a stronger decision to lead in their relationships? If so, what do you think will be the result? Has Lisa or Catherine ever sexually humiliated you?
When Mr. Lynda and I had an argument once, I got even when we were with some friends. They were bragging about their boyfriends. With Preston sitting next to me, I told my friends (both male and female) that Mr. Lynda gives the best oral sex in the world. I know it might be a little tacky, but I was insulted by the men who so freely spoke of blow jobs. The women giggled and told me how lucky I was. The men got very quiet. This was one time when Preston told me he was shocked by my behavior. However, I told him that I might just do it again if I felt the urge. All he could say was, "Yes, Ma'am!" It has gotten back to me that several of the men quizzed Preston about what he does that so pleases me. There may have been some benefits to my outrageous behavior. Looking forward to your next post. I also invite other men to comment. I hope you see less BDSM in this and more loving, even though it is the woman's way!
MR. LISA
You are correct, Ms. Lynda, perhaps my comfort level is a bit low. While it does seem somewhat embarrassing to have to answer "yes Ma'am" to Catherine, nonetheless I do it without complaint. Also, when shopping with Lisa, I cater to her every demand without the slightest complaint. I even get on my knees and take off and put on her shoes for her when she is shoe shopping. Once, a saleswoman was joking with Lisa as I was trying a pair of shoes on her. The saleswoman asked if Lisa makes me kiss her feet, so I playfully kissed Lisa's instep, both of them were entertained by this. I'm also on my knees before both Lisa and Catherine when I do their pedicures. I only bring these things out as examples of slightly humiliating situations. Sure, if Lisa wanted to, she could really come up with some really humiliating situations, and I would comply without complaint. But, neither of us likes to be in the spotlight too much when it comes to that. Catherine, on the other hand, does not mind the spotlight. I can only imagine what a shopping trip with her would be like.
I think most of the unmarried members of Catherine's group are of the mind that they will be in charge of their relationship. The feedback from my presentation was that the women were totally impressed by the fact that Lisa is the boss. I found that they were particularly impressed with the fact that Lisa totally controls all of the finances, that I have no access to the bank accounts, and that all financial matters are decided by Lisa. Many of these women earn large salaries, and I know they were "taking notes" regarding our financial arrangement. I hope I have answered your questions, Ms. Lynda. So, now that you are married, Ms. Lynda, what do you have planned for your husband to make him even more devoted to serving you? What additional things will he be doing for you to further your career, and make your home life easier and more convenient?
MS. LYNDA
Again, thank you for answering my questions so completely. We are inventing ourselves as a couple every day. Mr. Lynda creates a great home atmosphere, cooks good meals, and is tireless in his appreciation of me. I am probably seen as a very selfish person. I do not lift a finger at home. I lounge around while Mr. Lynda does all the work. For the fun of it, I have had him serve me while he was completely naked. He is so handsome. A naked man can be a real turn on. I love to see him grovel before me, kiss my feet and other parts of my body. It makes me feel so powerful. While BDSM has little place in our relationship, I am sure I am seen as the Great Bitch. Mr. Lynda has not had too much experience in serving as a corporate spouse, but he is very willing to do dinner parties, cocktail parties, etc. He has always been successful for the ones he has done. This will become a regular part of his life. I never want to hurt or abuse him, but, I do enjoy letting other people know that I am the boss.
It was so much fun during our honeymoon to have all the reservations made in my name and in Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. Another thing that has proven to be wonderful is that his outside career will be dependent upon me. He would like to work with a theatre. It will be my great pleasure to finance his employment. In other words, he will be my employee and I will be his boss even at work. Of course, I do not intend to have his work conflict with his duties as a househusband.
When Ms. Lisa does her taxes, does she list herself as the Head of Household? Does she list your profession as 'Househusband'? Have you ever double dated with Ms. Lisa and Catherine? How does she treat her dates? Does she ever use the services of a houseboy for her domestic duties? I know I am getting extremely personal, but do you see cunnilingus as a duty for you to perform on Ms. Lisa, an act of humiliation that proves her superiority, etc.? I know there is always a need for discretion because most people would not understand our life, but are you open in your support in front of other men? Do they know that Ms. Lisa is the head of your household? Are you teased by them for being "pussywhipped"? Lately, I have had the experience of men being envious of Mr. Lynda. Do you find that the men in Ms. Lisa's office would gladly marry their boss, stay home, and be a good domestic for their wife while she fosters her career? Since you have been married for a little while, how do you let people know that Ms. Lisa did not take your last name?
After a while, people just assume things. Is it wrong to want people to know that Mr. Lynda took my name in marriage? Of all the lovely things Mr. Lynda has done for me, this is the greatest because it tells the world that he sees me as the head. Have you sent out any letters with the new letterhead? How are people reacting? When you choose professional services, do you use women doctors, lawyers, etc.? Mr. Lynda and I are getting to know some like minded couples as people get acquainted with us. The group is extremely small. Have you experienced the same? As always, I enjoy hearing what you have to say. I would really like to hear from Catherine or Ms. Lisa also. You give courage to Mr. Lynda. He is willing to try so much because there are other men out there like him. And I do enjoy hearing from other men who have the same life, or who desire it.
MS. LYNDA
I cherish my new husband. While you may feel he is weak, I know him to be strong and creative. I also knew that from our first meeting, I had more common sense, more ability in the work world, and more career drive. It is my great pleasure to have him as a husband who supports me in ways other than financial. Finally, I do not know how to say this to you gentlemen, but, it may just happen that you will someday have to report to a woman boss, take direction from a woman, etc. I once asked a male soldier how he responded to having a woman head his fort. He said, "You say, Yes, Ma'am every time you see her and you salute her." I will continue my battles as long as I have them. I know I am not always correct. I know that I come across to many of you as a "Bitch Supreme", but, I also know myself very well. I am the New Woman. I want the responsibility. I want the pros and cons that come with it. I will handle it just fine. And I will have a nice guy waiting for me to help me cope with every new battle that comes my way. I hope some other women and men will respond to what I have written. However, it does not matter. I know I am on the correct path for myself and my family.
MR. LYNDA
I am not so sure I can be as nice as Ms. Lynda. I cannot believe how hostile some men are about women who take leadership roles. I think the most important point that Ms. Lynda has made in her very complete discussion is you make your observations in a world that is still run by men for the most part. Except for Martha Stewart, I am not reading lots about the screwups of female CEOs. I am not aware of how female bosses have cheated their workers out of benefits. I have read about male executives being guilty of these things. Your points only support the ideals of a woman run country, business, etc. since we are in such a sorry state due to male leadership. If women do take over, men may have to be on their toes and will finally do a better than average job. Be careful about thinking you know me and the kind of relationship I want with my wife. We came to most of our decisions after serious talks. Some of the things we did as wedding rites were to push people's faces into the mess. I have truly been happy supporting my new wife's career. Yes, I kneel before her every morning as I serve her coffee and breakfast. She is the willing partner eager to face the jungle of the workworld. Thank you Ms. Lynda. I acknowledge you as my Head and Boss. Long may you reign.
(End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 7 – to be continued)