Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 5
(Editor’s Note: This is the fifth in a continuing series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a message board active between 2001 and 2003. What began as a networking site for husbands wed to high-powered executives rapidly morphed into a provocative forum focusing on “matriarchal” (or, as they are more commonly called now, “wife-led marriages.”)
MS. LYNDA
I want to be in charge of a thinking man and a feeling man. I do not want a zombie that I can train. Yes, I like the "slavish" devotion, but, only if it is sustained with real intelligence, drive, and ambition. As I have said before, I think it takes an extremely strong man to take the backseat in the relationship and be a supportive spouse to his wife. A toast to strong men who become supportive spouses. Another toast to the women who take the leadership role.
MS. LYNDA
All I have ever wanted to do is reverse roles. I have wanted to do this since I was in elementary school. In my boyfriend, I have found a good match. He is quieter and more reserved. He is also wanting and willing to take the more subordinate role in the relationship, including taking my name. While I loved most of the graduation gifts we got, someone threatened to give me a whip and chains to subdue my husband. Some people want to know where I will build my dungeon. Both of us know we are going into new territory, but, we want to be a loving couple that does things in a matriarchal way. Yes, I want "slavish" devotion, but, I do not want an unthinking slave. I want him pussywhipped, but I do not want him whipped and bruised. When friends come over, I want them to experience the life of a well pampered woman, not the life of a bitch who abuses her husband. But perhaps I am being a little BDSM when I demand his oral attentions, or when I fondle him. As a joke, someone gave us a dog collar and leash for graduation. While it gave me a sense of power, I could go for the rest of my life without repeating the event. I guess I enjoy hearing from Charles and Lisa because they seem to be blazing the same kind of trails. He is subordinate and submissive without BDSM. I never want to degrade my boyfriend to the point where he resents his position in the family. When we have children, he will have a respected role as he raises them. But I do not want to be a distant mother. I know what I want and I know I will get it. I am discovering how very lucky I am.
NEWELL
Mr. Lynda, I think it's great you will be taking Lynda's last name. I also understand that you do all if not most of the cooking and cleaning. I was curious if you might want to tell me how you decide on the meals, does Lynda require a clean house or a VERY CLEAN HOUSE? As far as collars go, I must say that I certainly did not intend to introduce the concept of BDSM into this site. My usage of the terms Dominance and submission refers quite simply to the expectation as well as the type of exchange that my wife and I have with one another. Now on to collars, I think collars can be fun and are a good way to remind you and me of our position as well as our commitment to our wives. It sounds like you do enjoy wearing it as well as acknowledging to those around you that you do belong to Lynda, that's nice. I think one of the understated benefits of a submissive role is the feeling of belonging and the knowledge that you are being taken care of, or looked after if you will. I know in my relationship the feeling of belonging to her is very deep and it seems the longer we practice this type of lifestyle, the harder it is to stop or do things another way.
MR. LYNDA
I was less bothered by the dog collar and leash than Ms. Lynda was. It was pretty cool. I want to do it again. But I do not want to do it every day. It is just be a symbol of my devotion to Lynda. I would like to wear it at a dinner party we have planned before we leave here. She wants to invite a couple of her teachers again. They might get a kick out of it; "what have they done?" I think one of the problems Lynda and I are having is that we have not had a terrific fight yet. Nothing has come up that would have caused a battle between us. However, I know it will happen. We will discuss. While I realize that almost all final decisions will have to be hers, there may be one someday that will cause me to continue the fight. We will resolve it. And we will love each other. We also respect each other, and we respect the roles we have chosen in this household.
CHARLES
I get all my recipes from Foodtv.com. They've got about 20,000 recipes. Sounds to me like you’re a pretty good cook. The main question is, is Lynda pleased with your cooking? If so, then you are doing your job. If not, then you have to work to improve. That may means taking some cooking classes, which is what I did. I've also taken other classes over the years, such as manicuring/pedicuring, facials/skin care and massage. It's all about pleasing your wife.
MS. LYNDA
I am pleased. Sometimes the meals are a little heavy, and I like things lighter during the summer months. He has been creative. He made a chicken salad using a little bit of orange juice with the mayonnaise. He then added cashew nutes and green grapes. Cooking school is a great idea. So would the other classes. Have you shared with Ms. Lisa about being Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith? It seems like a long time since you posted. Did Ms. Lisa take you on a vacation?
CHARLES
No, Ms. Lynda, she didn’t, although I wish she would. Actually we did discuss the whole name issue, and Lisa decided, and I agreed, naturally, that as a couple we are going to start using Ms. Lisa and Mr. Charles Smith. We are putting her name first, but she is allowing me to retain my first name. And of course it's her last name which I took years ago. If she wanted me to go by Mr. Lisa Smith, that would have been OK with me, but she didn’t. A little too unconventional, I guess. I haven't posted much this past week, I have been really busy. Your boyfriend does sound like an excellent cook. So, how are the marriage plans going? Have you decided on how to handle the finances yet? I would highly recommend sending him to go to school for manicuring, pedicuring, and skin care. It is so much more convienient and less time consuming for Lisa to have me do these things than for her to have to go to a salon. Plus, it's a fantastic way to show my devotion to her, and my place in the relationship. When I'm at her feet polishing her toenails, she really enjoys the sense of power and control, knowing that at that moment in time, the only thing that matters to me is the perfect application of nail polish on Lisa's toes. I've also been to massage school, and Lisa enjoys being able to come home to a massage a few nights a week.
MS. LYNDA
You are filled with such good ideas and Mr. Lynda has agreed to take this fall semester and entitle it "Serving the Wife Term". He will take some further money management classes, some cooking classes, and some courses in hotel management. We are still working on how we will handle finances. My Mother seems to think we should engage her lawyer / broker and have Mr. Lynda work under her. I am keeping several accounts in my name only. However, he will have a household account that he will present for my inspection on a regular basis. I think he will be responsible for paying all the bills. I trust him to do the right thing. I will have my ways of enforcing his compliance.
BIBI
My husband and I will both work, but he will respect and support my career. I demand it. The man I am dating now accepts it. I respect men who will take second place and make the most of it. It is about time.
MS. LYNDA
Men can prove very useful when they decide to support your career and take care of all the household needs. They are nice to talk to when they keep up with events and have interests other than sports. Men are cute. Even with rough edges, they are adorable. I want to keep them around for a great while longer. I know I cannot live without them.
MS. LYNDA
Yesterday, I forgot to take my brown bag lunch. My boss was having a luncheon meeting for her staff. At 11:00 a.m., Mr. Lynda shows up with my lunch. He was wearing a nice pair of nylon running shorts and a close fitting t shirt because he was going to work out before going to work at the swimming pool. One of the women in the office asked him who made the lunch since it was so nice of him to bring it to me. He said he had put the lunch together and told the woman what he had made. I got teased for having the most whipped boyfriend. I know they were all envious because my lunch was the very best. I felt so powerful yesterday.
MR. LYNDA
The experience the other day was extremely weird. I know what to expect from Lynda. I was shocked by the behavior of the other women in her office. They enjoyed seeing me in a subordinate position. They felt I was being humiliated and whipped by Lynda. I love seeing women rule the roost. However, I was not humiliated. Is it humiliating to support your wife's career? I hope not. I expect to be doing it for fifty plus years.
CHARLES
What a nice feeling it must have been for you, Ms Lynda, to have him do this for you in front of all of your co-workers. It sounds as if he has no problem whatsoever showing and telling people that you are the boss. Being subordinate to your wife at home is one thing, but in public, it takes real courage. Mr. Lynda is to be commended, and you are to be commended for having the ability and attitude that allows him to be able to do things like this. I've had similar experiences, where Lisa has left something home and I've had to bring it to her at her office. Once, she broke a heel on one of her shoes, so she calls me and tells me to bring her a different pair of shoes. She described to me the ones she wanted, I located them and drove them to her office. This happened a few years ago, and at the time I didn’t know too many people in her office, just a couple of them. So I get to her office with the shoes, and she's in the middle of a meeting with three of her employees, whom I had not previously met. It was an informal meeting, and so her secretary let me go into her office, after first announcing that her husband was here with her shoes. So I walk in, Lisa's shoes in hand. She introduces me, and, like your co-workers did, her employees commented on how nice it was of me to do this, and they joked with Lisa about how well she had trained me. I set Lisa's shoes at her feet, and (I kind of knew this was going to happen) she asked me if I would put them on her. Lisa asked in a really nice way, and the whole atmosphere in the room was very light. She didn’t want to embarrass me too much, just enough to show me and her three employees that she was the boss at home as well. So, of course, like a good husband, I put Lisa's shoes on for her, we joked around some more, she told me to take her broken shoe to be repaired, and I left.
MS. LYNDA
Some of my co-workers have found out about the dinner party I am throwing. You should see the interest being shown. So many of these women want an invitation. I have had to promise them another party before we leave. Some of the women even said they would chip in and help pay for the dinner if they could be present and served by Mr. Lynda. I am so lucky. I feel SO POWERFUL. Also, Mr. Lynda and I had supper at a restaurant because he was working the evening shift at the swimming pool. We got lots of stares. I was dressed for business and he was dressed for leisure. People did notice. Both of us loved it... His boss this summer at the swimming pool is a woman, the head of the park is a woman, the swim team coach he assists is a younger woman. He is going to be so conditioned that he will be shocked when he realizes that men do things also.
SUBMALE
I'm a 34 year old man who's about to get married to the Woman of my dreams. We share the view that She's more fit to have the final word on important decisions in our life. She will be the natural head of the family, and I will do everything I can to support Her in Her career. Thanks to Rob's post earlier about men taking their wives' last names, I've just decided that that's what I want to do: Take Her last name when we marry.
MS. LYNDA
I am glad you are taking your wife's last name in marriage. My boyfriend is doing the same later this summer when we marry. Will you also be Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Family Name) for formal purposes? Sometimes I fear I am too much like a husband of the forties and fifties because I do not want my husband to work outside the home. He needs to support my career so that I can do more and more. Like more women who are putting their career first, I thank you men who are willing to take the subordinate, submissive role in the family. Your courage will help shape a new society where we all work to our maximum, if at home or on the outside world. I know I make a lot of sense.
MR. ANGELA
Although I am currently employed in a reasonably senior job my girlfriend (who also reads this board) is keen for me to give it up, move in with her. Give up work and dedicate myself full time to her service. Whilst I am happy to do this holding as I do a totally subordinate role in our relationship, I am concerned as my girlfriend has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship and I worry as to what effect this might have on her daughter. Although her daughter is aware that I am submissive to her mother, I am not sure she appreciates the extent of my submission. This does concern me, though Ms Angela insists that it’s no problem and her daughter understands the nature of our relationship and as a teenager is happy with the idea of being able to hand over her chores to me!
YES MY GODDESS
It sounds like you - oops, I mean Ms Angela - has it well in control. Listen to Ms Angela; obey Ms Angela; learn to please Ms Angela... therein lies wisdom. I am learning to say "Yes, My Goddess"
LEO
What are the complications? Do as you are told. Women have a high sense of morals. Nothing unseemly will happen and you will forward the cause of Matriarchal Households and give a very positive image to a young teenage woman who may find a boy like "dear ole step-dad."
MR. ANGELA
Well yes but I suspect that knowing myself and Ms Angela and her daughter that I will end up as servile to both of them, I guess it’s that I am concerned about. Perhaps I should just accept it as my role and be grateful.
LEO
I think you should simply accept your role. Yes, you may be servile to both, but you will be guided in it by Ms. Angela. You may be helping form a mindset in the young teenager. It seems proper to me that you would take a servile role to both of them. Good luck. Enjoy your new role! Like so many modern men, you are breaking new ground in a very positive way.
MR. ANGELA
Thanks for your advice. I have spoken to Ms Angela about this and my feelings. She too feels that it is quite natural that I be servile to them both. She has said that it would make her happy to see me call her daughter miss and her Maam. She also likes the idea of her daughter assuming some of Ms Angela’s supervisory duties when she is not there. Whilst I am comfortable to an extent, I am still not sure I am ready to be scolded and chastised by someone young enough to be my daughter.
LEO
You say you feel it is not comfortable to surrender to your girlfriend's daughter. I say you will surrender not to her daughter foremost, but to your Lady's wish (which is to obey her daughter too). From this point on, you cannot make any excuses.
MR. ANGELA
Yes, I am sure you are right and that’s what I intend to do. Part of me I think is still adjusting to the new dynamics. It will be an adjustment for me to submit to this young lady but one I am happy, willing and eager to make. In some ways when I reflect on it I find the idea of submitting to my Mistress’s daughter really quite pleasing, reinforcing as it does my true place in the domestic pecking order.
MR. MARTHA
Here is a newspaper article about a Mr. Joseph Harkless who, upon marriage, became Mr. Cristina Ellison. I think this is an inspiring story about a couple who truly represent the future when men will proudly take their wives' names in marriage:
Cincinnati Enquirer, Sunday, January 07, 2001
COUPLE KEEPS WIFE'S NAME; IT TAKES 6 MONTHS
ELYRIA, Ohio (AP) — More than six months after their wedding, Joseph Harkless and Christina Ellison finally have the same last name — but it's not his.
Joseph Ellison, 20, told the Chronicle Telegram that he took his wife's last name because he loves her. “It's so sad to me because my dad was the last boy in his family and there are no more Ellisons. So we're like extending the name,” Ms. Ellison, 21, said.
The couple, who are formally called Ms. and Mr. Christina Ellison, married June 16, but Mr. Ellison's name change was delayed by the license and Social Security bureaus, Ms. Ellison said.
A criminal investigation was conducted to make sure Mr. Ellison was not changing his name to skirt the law.
“The Social Security bureau said they would have to do a credit investigation and a criminal investigation to see if he had killed people in other states and was trying to run away,” Ms. Ellison said.
“Finally they said they were sick of dealing with it and were finally going to do it.”
They hope to become an example to others wanting to keep the wife's name.
“Everyone keeps saying, "Man, if I had known that, I would have had my husband change his name,'” Ms. Ellison said. “My sister's going to do it next. They got married in November, and they're going to change his name soon too.”
I ran into this story about a year ago and I contacted the couple. They had inspired me. When we were married over fifteen years ago, I took my wife's last name in marriage, but kept my name for professional reasons. In other words, only the closest family members and children knew of our family by my wife's name. At home, I would be Mr. Her, but in public I stayed Mr. Me.
When you speak with this couple, you get the idea that they are just as normal as any young couple. She is the head of the household because she is smart and dynamic. She has been in management. In fact, Joe met her when they worked together and she was his boss. He is proud to acknowledge her as the head of their household. So loving and honest is he that I took the step and changed my driver's license and other ID to my wife's name. I also told family church members, and others that our family would be known as Dr. and Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Last Name) in formal settings. Except for the "that's cool" and "you are too pussywhipped", no one seems to care. Her mother thinks it is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. She loves to introduce me to her friends. I even think she has forgotten my first name.
MS. LYNDA
It is important that a man be able to shift his goals and support a woman's career. The matriarchal movement will need well trained men to help educate both sons and daughters in the "new order."
LEGS
Whether we like it or not, we're going to have to accept the reality of it (women in dominant roles). From what I've observed it's inevitable. Might as well like it and do what we can to make the inevitable future more pleasant.
CHARLES
Yesterday, I told Lisa that I would be willing to fill in for her assistant for the second two weeks in July. Lisa had already assumed that I would, as I said, she was very insistent upon it, almost demanding that I do it. Also, I will still be expected to do all of the housework, and give her the personal services she has become accustomed to. A monumental task, I think, but as Ms. Lynda stated, it's what she wants, so I will do it. Although I worked for women for years, I am still intimidated at the prospect of working for Lisa, not to mention the other women in her office. I'm also not ashamed to say that I am definitely Lisa's intellectual inferior, she is brilliant, I never finished college. It will be quite a challenge and I hope I do not disappoint her.
CHARLES
When I met Lisa, I really didn’t have much of a choice as to my role, if I wanted to be with her, I was just going to have to accept the subordinate role. There are a lot of men out there these days who feel as I do, that the woman can and should be the leader.
MS. LYNDA
I am sure you will not disappoint Ms. Lisa because you have the right attitude going into the temp position. You can do it all. Work on pleasing Ms. Lisa; you cannot fail. You may be exhausted at the end of your temp experience, but, you will also be even more thankful that you work at home for Ms. Lisa, helping her career be even more successful all the time.
CHARLES
Thank you once again, Ms. Lynda. You’re right, I must stay focused on pleasing Lisa and remember that what is good for her career benefits the both of us. I like to think that I do play a part in her success, like I said before, even when ironing her skirts in the morning, I do it with the attitude that it will enhance her day. We men need the direction of a strong, confident, assertive woman.
ANNA
If I were married to you, I would keep you barefoot, and servile. I would expect a clean house and delicious meals every day. If you work outside the home, will you gain a taste for your freedom and want more. I hope Lisa is not making a mistake. You do not need freedom. You need to serve her.
JENNIFER
If Charles was my secretary, he'd have to wear tailored suits and have impeccable grooming. He'd have my coffee and Wall Street Journal on my desk before I arrived for work. He would take dictation. He would have to make all of my personal appointments such as hair, nails and tanning for me. He would call me Ms. S, and answer "yes ma'am" when given an instruction. He would accompany me to business meetings to carry my briefcase for me. He would run all types of errands for me, both business and personal. He would pick up and drop off my dry cleaning, get my car washed, and shop for me when I needed him too... Interested in the job????
CHARLES
Ms. Jennifer S., Actually, at my last job, I did nearly all of these things for my boss. Her name was Susan and she was truly an incredible woman. Although she was a very demanding woman, she actually made it a pleasure to do all of these things for her.
(End of 5th Spousechat Archive Excerpt; more to come…)